Home page logo
/

pen-test logo Penetration Testing mailing list archives

Re: Professional Scrpt Kiddies vs Real Talent
From: Omar Herrera <oherrera () prodigy net mx>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2010 23:55:30 -0600

Hi Adriel,

I agree that you have script kiddies on both ends, but this is the nature of humans. You get you car these days to the mechanic and most of them run some kind of scanner without understanding the inner details, look at the report, replace the parts and that's it. They do what they were trained for, nothing more or nothing else, and sometimes, that's just what it's needed.

We got scientists and experts that claim to know the ultimate truth, just to get debunked by the next generation of great scientists and experts in an endless loop.

Now, don't take me wrong, but look at one of your statements:
"

I’m talking about doing actual vulnerability research and exploit development to help educate people about risks for 
the purposes of defense. After all, if a security company can’t write an exploit then what business do they have 
launching exploits against your company?

"
I disagree with this :-), a deep technical understanding is not the only way to security in my opinion. I think we can also learn a lot about security risks from analysing things like business processes and human behaviour.

The people you list do deserve to be highly respected in the informations sector, but so do others that have chosen different paths from technical nirvana. I do understand your feelings for people that claim to be something that they are not, but we have created this by alienating any newbie that comes to these forums (just for lack of knowledge or asking wrong questions). We tend to have heated discussions around philosophical issues that don't have a single answer, and let our egos flourish as soon as we feel we have grasped enough knowledge to consider ourselves experts.

I don't blame newcomers for opting to take the easy path after getting a few beatings for asking for knowledge and then getting blamed for this (they probably don't even care). Honestly, they are not the problem, we are. We try so hard to make this an elite and closed circle that we forget about our true goals.

Regards,

Omar


Adriel Desautels escribió:
Posted on: http://snosoft.blogspot.com/2010/03/good-guys-in-security-world-are-no.html

Comments, insults, etc. on the blog (or here) are more than welcome.

--

The Good Guys in the security world are no different from the Bad Guys; most of them are nothing more than glorified 
Script Kiddies. The fact of the matter is that if you took all of the self-proclaimed hackers in the world and you 
subjected them to a litmus test, very few would pass as actual hackers.

This is true for both sides of the proverbial Black and White hat coin. In the Black Hat world, you have script-kids 
who download programs that are written by other people then use those programs to “hack” into networks. The White Hat’s 
do the exact same thing; only they buy the expensive tools instead of downloading them for free. Or maybe they’re 
actually paying for the pretty GUI, who knows?

What is pitiable is that in just about all cases these script kiddies have no idea what the programs actually do. 
Sometimes that’s because they don’t bother to look at the code, but most of the time its because they just can’t 
understand it. If you think about it that that is scary. Do you really want to work with a security company that 
launches attacks against your network with tools that they do not fully understand? I sure wouldn’t.

This is part of the reason why I feel that it is so important for any professional security services provider to 
maintain an active research team. I’m not talking about doing market research and pretending that its security research 
like so many security companies do. I’m talking about doing actual vulnerability research and exploit development to 
help educate people about risks for the purposes of defense. After all, if a security company can’t write an exploit 
then what business do they have launching exploits against your company?

I am very proud to say that Everything Channel recently released the 2010 CRN Security Researchers list and that 
Netragard’s Kevin Finisterre was on the list. Other people that were included in the list are people that I have the 
utmost respect for. As far as I am concerned, these are the top security experts:

    * Dino Dai Zovi
    * Kevin Finisterre
    * Landon Fuller
    * Robert Graham
    * Jeremiah Grossman
    * Larry Highsmith
    * Billy Hoffman
    * Mikko Hypponen
    * Dan Kaminsky
    * Paul Kocher
    * Nate Lawson
    * David Litchfield
    * Charles Miller
    * Jeff Moss
    * Jose Nazario
    * Joanna Rutkowska


In the end I suppose it all boils down to what the customer wants. Some customers want to know their risks; others just 
want to put a check in the box. For those who want to know what their real risks are, you’ve come to the right place.



------------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is sponsored by: Information Assurance Certification Review Board

Prove to peers and potential employers without a doubt that you can actually do a proper penetration test. IACRB CPT and CEPT certs require a full practical examination in order to become certified.
http://www.iacertification.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------


  By Date           By Thread  

Current thread:
[ Nmap | Sec Tools | Mailing Lists | Site News | About/Contact | Advertising | Privacy ]