Re: [privacy] Social Security Card to be National ID?

["C Q" <kyle.c.quest () gmail com>]

This was simply an example showing counterfeiters will have a lot of
challenges
to overcome when it comes to digital identification. There are a lot of
things that
can be done and the best solution will be a blend of several technologies.

This was a simple example to counter your simple reasoning in the previous
email about counterfeiters. By now means I intended to talk about a perfect
solution... First of all it's not my job... I got enough to worry about.
Second, I don't have time to write a complete essay discussing the
subject...


On 5/18/07, Randy Abrams <abrams () eset com> wrote:
> > Please go read up on asymmetric encryption, PKI, certificates, CAs, etc.
> Then come
> > back and tell me how you are going to counterfeit Microsoft website's
> certificate...
>
> I am reminded of a quote in, off all things, a book on robotics that went
> something to the effect of "if you only see one solution you probably don't
> understand the problem."
>
> If I want to counterfeit Microsoft's website certificate then I have an
> exceptionally difficult task, however if that is what I am trying to do then
> I am probably going after something entirely different and there will be a
> variety of approaches that will work.
>
> Not the web site certificate, but when I worked at Microsoft there were
> two Microsoft digital certificates issued by Verisign to people who did not
> work for Microsoft... Hence the impetus to turn on certificate revocation in
> IE.
>
> As for freedom (and civil liberties) being an illusion, that's not exactly
> true. There are some remnants left that are worth fighting for... They just
> don't happen to be in Iraq.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Randy
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>         From: C Q [mailto:kyle.c.quest () gmail com]
>         Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 6:12 PM
>         To: Randy Abrams
>         Cc: Fergie; privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
>         Subject: Re: [privacy] Social Security Card to be National ID?
>
>
>         At least here you tried to provide some reasoning behind your
> statement... That's progress :-)
>
>         Once again, I'd like to revisit the scenario with money. Please
> tell me are most bills counterfeit?
>         Yes, there's a problem with people counterfeiting money, but it's
> not an epidemic. And it's actually
>         easy to counterfeit our money... Their protection mechanisms are
> pathetic :-)
>         If we have really good id cards. It will be much harder to
> counterfeit them. It's not about
>         impossibility... it's about reducing the possibility. Besides...
> even if the crooks will
>         manage to counterfeit the cards to make them visually similar
> there will still be a matter
>         of having to deal with digital fingerprints, etc. That won't be
> that easy to counter fit.
>         Please go read up on asymmetric encryption, PKI, certificates,
> CAs, etc. Then come
>         back and tell me how you are going to counterfeit Microsoft
> website's certificate...
>
>         As for freedom... I got news for you. There's no such thing.
> Especially in the US.
>         It's an illusion... And it's been gone for many many years. I have
> lived in other countries,
>         so I can share my first hand experience that a lot of times you
> have much more freedom
>         elsewhere...
>
>         And another thing about freedom... it's a relative concept. For
> example, the drivers in Germany
>         are fighting the Green Party that wants to impose a 120km (about
> 75 miles) speed limit.
>         The German drivers are saying that it's their right... a free man
> should be able to go as
>         fast as he wants from point A to point B.
>
>         Speaking of driving... where's this freedom thingie you are
> referring to... when you are forced
>         by law to wear a seatbelt as if the government owned your body and
> soul...
>
>
>         On 5/18/07, Randy Abrams <abrams () eset com > wrote:
>
>                 And yet it will not accomplish either. It will add a
> product line to the black market. Criminals with funding will buy the
> technology to beat the ID card, and will also sell excellent counterfeits on
> the black market, making it harder to discover an illegal alien. For the law
> abiding American it will only facilitate government tracking.
>
>                 It's simply a proposal that no American who values freedom
> at all could accept as anything less than an assault on the rights and
> freedoms of the innocent.
>
>                 Cheers,
>
>                 Randy
>
>
>                 ________________________________
>
>                         From: C Q [mailto:kyle.c.quest () gmail com]
>                         Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 5:54 PM
>                         To: Fergie
>                         Cc: privacy () whitestar linuxbox org
>                         Subject: Re: [privacy] Social Security Card to be
> National ID?
>
>
>                         You are right. I didn't word it correctly. I meant
> to say that
>                         I talked about those two issues. Yes, one of the
> main benefits
>                         behind introducing National ID is to have better
> tools
>                         in preventing what you mentioned (the whole pilot
> license thing).
>                         I agree that this should really be about that and
> less about
>                         controlling illegals. It's just that website with
> the original article
>                         tried to get immigration into the mix. I just had
> to say something about that...
>
>
>
>                         On 5/18/07, Fergie <fergdawg () netzero net> wrote:
>
>                                 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>                                 Hash: SHA1
>
>                                 - -- "C Q" <kyle.c.quest () gmail com> wrote:
>
>                                 >There are two issues here:
>                                 >1. National ID and its benefits
>                                 >2. Illegal aliens and their impact on the
> lives of the people who live in
>                                 >the US.
>                                 >
>
>                                 Actually, no.
>
>                                 Number 2 should be "Prohibiting terrorists
> from obtaining pilot's
>                                 licenses."
>
>                                 It is nothing less than disingenuous to
> color this debate on a
>                                 National ID card as an illegal immigration
> control issue.
>
>                                 After 11 September 2001, the _entire_
> impetus for a National ID
>                                 card (née Real ID) was to put into a place
> a mechanism to identify
>                                 people who weren't supposed to be here --
> namely terrorists.
>
>                                 - - ferg
>
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>
>
>                                 --
>                                 "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson
>                                 Engineering Architecture for the Internet
>                                 fergdawg(at)netzero.net
>                                 ferg's tech blog:
> http://fergdawg.blogspot.com/
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