Re: Perhaps it's time to think about enhancements to the NANOG list...?

[Rod Beck <rod.beck () unitedcablecompany com>]

The Jews in the 19th century were given a neighborhood in each European city. It was called the Ghetto. Some of us 
would prefer to live in a Ghetto where people can ask for specific assistance on network capacity or route problems and 
the like. An affiliated, but separate list.

Many of us who have no interest in programming routers (my interests include physics and Medieval music) would gladly 
never post again in the main forum. The Ghetto would allow people to post articles about new networks or pose questions 
for help on finding capacity. I would not have delete each day 99% of NANOG messages or be subjected to flame fights. 
Moderators could keep their main constituency happy by maintaining a very narrow focus. The Purists would be delighted. 
The overworked IT guy or gal would never see any other post about how to extend a 100 gig wave to Mars.

But there would be no marketing of boxes or networks in the Ghetto. No posting of I got $1500 wave available between 1 
Wilshire and 60 Hudson. Marketing simply drives good people out. Just a place where people sourcing can ask questions 
and people who want to help can do so without breaking rules and being threatened.

NANOG does depend on telecom sales to finance its real conferences. So, a complete divorce is unnecessary and 
counterproductive given that sales already moved for the most part to Linkedin. But there is a wealth of knowledge 
among engineers and network managers on who has what and how to get from point A to point Z. Some of those people are 
willing to share it and there should be a dedicated place to do so. For example, Mehmet provided valuable assistance 
which will benefit some of my customers.

-R.


________________________________
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+rod.beck=unitedcablecompany.com () nanog org> on behalf of Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuhnke () gmail 
com>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 12:43 AM
To: Matthew Petach <mpetach () netflight com>
Cc: NANOG <nanog () nanog org>; admins () nanog org <admins () nanog org>
Subject: Re: Perhaps it's time to think about enhancements to the NANOG list...?

Perhaps the sales, marketing and 'business development' people who've never typed "enable" or "configure" into a router 
a single day in their lives might be better served with a dedicated list that is mission focused on bizdev, and not 
operational issues.



On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 3:29 PM Matthew Petach <mpetach () netflight com<mailto:mpetach () netflight com>> wrote:

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 10:37 AM Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc> wrote:
CC back to the mailing list for visibility, since I ate the CC list.

On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 1:31 PM Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc> wrote:
Rod-

Please refer to the usage guidelines found here. https://nanog.org/resources/usage-guidelines/

14. Posts that encourage or facilitate an agreement about the following subjects are inappropriate: prices, discounts, 
or terms or conditions of sale; salaries; benefits, profits, profit margins, or cost data; market shares, sales 
territories, or markets; allocation of customers or territories; or selection, rejection, or termination of customers 
or suppliers.

 I would tend to agree that while most of your posts to the list are within the guidelines, there have been occasions 
where a reasonable person could think you might be skirting the line a bit. In this case :

- Your company works as a broker to procure capacity for others.
- You sent an email to the list that wording wise would be exactly the same as many of us might send to someone they 
were looking for capacity from.

I think most would agree this is pretty clearly against both the usage guidelines and the spirit of what this mailing 
list is about.

I would also like to remind you that this list is administered by the NANOG organization. You have no authority to tell 
others to 'cease and desist', and insult someone as 'underemployed' is also not well tolerated here.

I have looped in the list admins here. It would probably be a good idea to refrain from future messages that are 
clearly commercial in nature, or that contain unnecessary insults.



If only we had some way to segregate out different topics
of interest or disinterest, so that people who weren't interested
in questions about bandwidth availability could unsubscribe
from those topics, and only subscribe to the topics that *did*
interest them...

#AFewDaysTooEarly

^_^;;

Matt