Re: Route optimization using GPUs?

[Warren Kumari <warren () kumari net>]

On Thu, Dec 05, 2024 at 3:41 PM, Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote:

> *shrugs* Incorrectly assigning the blame doesn't really help anyone.


Sure, but the fact remains that there is blame to be assigned.

It doesn't really matter to the affected network if the fault lies with the
box itself, or the operator of the box, or the person who makes the morning
coffee for the person who operates the box — the fact still remains that
this call of devices have caused significant disruption for a whole bunch
of external networks.

"Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people" may be a factually
true statement - but if there were no guns, there would be less people
being shot…
"Route optimizers don't hijack routes, operators with route optimizers
hijack routes" falls into the same category…

W


> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Tom Beecher" <beecher () beecher cc>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net>
> *Cc: *"Rich Compton" <RICH_COMPTON () comcast com>, nanog () nanog org
> *Sent: *Thursday, December 5, 2024 2:39:52 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Route optimization using GPUs?
>
> I think most of the hatred towards them is unwarranted,
> >
>
> This is essentially saying "I've never had a problem , so I don't think
> it's a big deal."
>
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 3:19 PM Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote:
>
> > Eh, different people have different opinions.
> >
> > I think most of the hatred towards them is unwarranted,
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > Midwest-IX
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: *"Rich Compton" <RICH_COMPTON () comcast com>
> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net>, "Jason Bothe" <jbothe () me com>
> > *Cc: *nanog () nanog org
> > *Sent: *Thursday, December 5, 2024 2:10:47 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: Route optimization using GPUs?
> >
> > “I strongly recommend to turn off those BGP optimizers, glue the ports
> > shut, burn the hardware, and salt the grounds on which the BGP optimizer
> > sales people walked.”
> >
> >
> >
> > -Job Snijders
> >
> >
> >
> > https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092131.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From: *NANOG <nanog-bounces+rich_compton=comcast.com () nanog org> on
> > behalf of Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net>
> > *Date: *Thursday, December 5, 2024 at 12:24 PM
> > *To: *Jason Bothe <jbothe () me com>
> > *Cc: *nanog () nanog org <nanog () nanog org>
> > *Subject: *Re: Route optimization using GPUs?
> >
> > IIRC, the widespread outages are the result of exporting things that
> > shouldn't be exported.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ics-il.com__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GFUnuA6qE7A0AePY8rTtMX8Ll2VP7FK-FJTDkvkdwhlRmzqhmEA7Dat58fBwUk9jdLbHKhdSYEBil7VttQ$>
> >
> > Midwest-IX
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.midwest-ix.com__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GFUnuA6qE7A0AePY8rTtMX8Ll2VP7FK-FJTDkvkdwhlRmzqhmEA7Dat58fBwUk9jdLbHKhdSYEAsGopkmw$>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From: *"Jason Bothe via NANOG" <nanog () nanog org>
> > *To: *"Drew Weaver" <drew.weaver () thenap com>
> > *Cc: *nanog () nanog org
> > *Sent: *Thursday, December 5, 2024 11:03:39 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: Route optimization using GPUs?
> >
> > WIth merchant silicon getting faster and stronger everyday, and capacity
> > and transit in a freewill, I’m not sure what GPU optimization would buy
> > you, not to mention the ROI. The Internet routing table is not showing
> > substantial signs of growth and in some cases has experienced a plateau.
> > Also, the experience with ‘route optimization tools’ is that while they may
> > bring you some priority in your traffic, they are also known for making
> > horrible decisions resulting in widespread outages.
> >
> >
> >
> > J~
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 5, 2024, at 8:13 AM, Drew Weaver <drew.weaver () thenap com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > So back in the.. hell I don’t know like… early 2010s there was a push for
> > ‘route optimization’ from products like RouteScience and the Avaya CNA and
> > more recently whatever Noction is doing.
> >
> >
> >
> > The big pain point for this technology at the time was that it could only
> > optimize the top N egress routes due to how many probes it could send out
> > and how many results it could process.
> >
> >
> >
> > It seems like now with a modest GPU in a router you could pretty easily
> > ‘optimize’ [to the extent that you believe this technology worked] pretty
> > much the whole routing table.
> >
> >
> >
> > We used these tools extensively back then and they actually worked pretty
> > well in most cases. The biggest issue we ran into was people complaining
> > that we pinged their IP addresses… which now a days seems like a great
> > worst problem to have.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway is anyone doing any work on implementing GPUs into the BGP
> > decision making process? Seems like a no brainer.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Drew