Re: Re: Re: [Ext] [External Sender] RE: my finance department cares deeply about 2%

[Samaneh Tajalizadehkhoob via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

I am not checking my emails until Nov 14th, 2025. Thanks, Samaneh

On Nov 10, 2025, at 1:06 PM, Samaneh Tajalizadehkhoob via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org> wrote:

I am not checking my emails until Nov 14th, 2025. Thanks, Samaneh

On Nov 7, 2025, at 6:41 PM, Matthew Petach via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org> wrote:

Probably better to just ignore the nameless Internet trolls, rather than
feeding them.  ^_^;

The 98% number is complete nonsense, as anyone who has built a network is
aware.

Eduard had a very good point that IPv6's multi homing support for multi-ISP
hookups is horrifically broken compared to IPv4 with NAT for non-BGP
speaking home installations.  After years of trying to make it work, at my
house we gave up and just disabled IPv6.
In v4, primary ISP goes down, health check fails, default gateway VRRP
address flips over to the other router, and web pages need a simple reload,
and you're back in business with a new NAT translation table entry on the
other router.
With v6, primary router goes down, you try to flip default router addresses
over, but you're not very successful because the default router is a
link-local address coming from the RAs, so you start futzing with timing
parameters to force the router's RA to invalidate the gateway so hosts stop
using it, but then you have downstream devices that haven't stopped using
the delegated v6 prefix from the dead ISP, so you have a bunch of "no route
to host" problems where the host hasn't figured out it needs to invalidate
its v6 address from that ISP and switch to using a v6 address from the
other ISP.
NAT66 is the answer, but due to dogmatic orthodoxy the number of consumer
CPE devices that support NAT66 out of the box can be counted on one hand by
captain Hook.
So, the eventual inevitable answer is that if you're a home user with two
ISPs, say Spectrum and ATT fiber, you simply disable IPv6 so that your
family will stop calling you every time one ISP drops to ask why everything
has gone so screwy again.

Matt



On Thu, Nov 6, 2025, 11:33 Matt Rienzo via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>
wrote:

Yes but that 98% reduction in electricity (do you have a source for that
number?) is on the carrier side, not the cell phone side.  There is also a
good chance that the carrier router is going to consume the same power
either way.

Matthew Rienzo
Network Engineer
Southwestern Healthcare, Inc.
812.436.4333 Office
812.893.3576 Mobile


From: nanog--- via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2025 11:58 AM
To: North American Network Operators Group <nanog () lists nanog org>
Cc: nanog () immibis com
Subject: [External Sender] RE: my finance department cares deeply about 2%

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
fun fact I forgot to mention: if you use ipv6 on cellphone connections,
your site loads more than 2% faster and uses less than 98% as much
electricity, due to avoiding the expensive and computation-hungry NAT
process itself, as well as not needing to be physically routed to that big
centralised server and back. So if you care about 2%, you'll use IPv6.


On 6 November 2025 18:52:07 CET, nanog--- via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org
<mailto:nanog () lists nanog org>> wrote:
So you use header compression on all your links, right? No sense reducing
your 1Gbps main uplink to 0.98Gbps. The checksum (removed in v6) is already
5% of each IP packet header. Speaking of headers I take it you're using
SLIP instead of Ethernet? And you avoid TLS like the plague? I hope you
replaced your 15W LED bulbs with 14.7W bulbs as well - your finance
department will thank you. This is asinine.


On 6 November 2025 13:11:16 CET, Vasilenko Eduard via NANOG <
nanog () lists nanog org<mailto:nanog () lists nanog org>> wrote:
Tell any financial department that 2% does not matter
and see the reaction.
Ed/
-----Original Message-----
From: Marco Moock via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org<mailto:
nanog () lists nanog org>>
Sent: Thursday, November 6, 2025 14:53
To: North American Network Operators Group <nanog () lists nanog org
<mailto:nanog () lists nanog org>>
Cc: Marco Moock <mm () dorfdsl de<mailto:mm () dorfdsl de>>
Subject: Re: Artificial Juniper SRX limitations preventing IPv6
deployment (and sales)

On 06.11.2025 07:12 Vasilenko Eduard wrote:

The issue that 128bits (64+64) are wasted in every packet. Formally,
for "privacy". Content providers are lathing from such form or
privacy. But it is 2% of the internet capacity.

No one cares nowadays. The amount of other crap traffic (scrapers, AI,
spam, DDoS attacks) is a real problem, the additional bits in the header
aren't.
The time of slow dialup connections where every bit matters, is over.
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/GQ5AQ75WAWRXFYS54QLFQAUMDGCM4QV4/__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4EH3Qzm4$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]
<
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/GQ5AQ75WAWRXFYS54QLFQAUMDGCM4QV4__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4HcQAx9E$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]

_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/3WJNGJSN3R252QI7CWBDOTAL37LNQFIH/__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4YHtZH0c$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]
<
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/3WJNGJSN3R252QI7CWBDOTAL37LNQFIH__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4UTXXssA$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]

_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/ZYNMIDYAXYZMGQJT2VX36DZIEY5XHNYC/__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4jMmk2r8$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]
<
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/ZYNMIDYAXYZMGQJT2VX36DZIEY5XHNYC__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4lpSjMjI$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]

_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/EI7EM7BXCFKDS3WR7HNRLREHECTMUCR7/__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4lgZFHcI$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]
<
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/EI7EM7BXCFKDS3WR7HNRLREHECTMUCR7__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4gTiDpSE$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]


Disclaimer

The information contained in this communication from the sender is
confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others
authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in
relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and may
be unlawful.

This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been
automatically archived by Mimecast, a leader in email security and cyber
resilience. Mimecast integrates email defenses with brand protection,
security awareness training, web security, compliance and other essential
capabilities. Mimecast helps protect large and small organizations from
malicious activity, human error and technology failure; and to lead the
movement toward building a more resilient world. To find out more, visit
our website.
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/CHSFHGQWW7FLVDF6LENS6PRO65TEDQ2S/__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4_5UDKxU$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]

_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/3IZLYF5IT5FH5TZ6QKG3E2EPOZHVHCKC/__;!!PtGJab4!_4ANDGqi2HmXzWt8Z10w1diQ4rL_gfzP6ibbSQjLZ2EBn7ULXC_v9q6hbxtvY8lXSjCAr4a3D1x3aaX0dYW4CfLPx6U$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog 
org/message/4AYJ2XGQXPPHVN7JXILQZBOJHLQBW62I/__;!!PtGJab4!920DK2hg2RQWiqrv0BKS2y8y9BV8iPigQU1zgjgAvAcRp78zaPrhbfBfxXiNjybXPux6NGhSDlrcepPOKod52amnBcg$
 [lists[.]nanog[.]org]
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list 
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog org/message/Q6TCFYKYKFUVQLLPJE6D42Q2UWJN5W3Y/