RE: Implementing Decentralized RPKI with Blockchain Technology

[Vasilenko Eduard via NANOG <nanog () nanog org>]

  *   Possibly the main reason this hasn't happened yet is that politicians don't understand what internet resources 
are, or how they're allocated, or what could be achieved by forcibly changing allocations.
Nope, you underestimate politicians, they have consultants that are very smart.
Isolation is a tool of weakness. Some could not win, hence he isolates himself from the danger.
West/NATO still leading the war on the Internet. Then isolation does not make sense. The Internet is a good channel for 
influence. Hundreds of millions are spent on spreading FUD, and a different sort of propaganda.
The Internet has been a battlefield for a long time. I have seen it as it was started and progressed over 20 years. 
Russia was feeble initially, not capable at all (they could say “it was started not by us”). Russia is still weaker, 
thousands of blocked sites is a sign of weakness.
I do not believe that Russia would ever be as professional as the West in brainwashing (Russia has strengths in 
different fields). Hence, the West would never start isolation on a wide scope.
Some particular ASes would be probably blocked sooner or later. Despite it would be a confession of some weaknesses.
West public opinion is the only thing that refrains politicians from starting blocking some ASes. IMHO: it would happen 
because there would be not enough progress on the other battlefields. Politicians would become a little desperate.

IMHO: the war would be driven to the Internet, like you or not. Fighting in all arenas/spaces was advice from all the 
biggest war theoretics (Clausewitz, Sun Tzu, etc).
Ed/
From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+vasilenko.eduard=huawei.com () nanog org> On Behalf Of Alex
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2024 21:00
To: nanog () nanog org
Subject: Re: Implementing Decentralized RPKI with Blockchain Technology


One country whose internet resources are nominally controlled by a RIR that's located in an enemy jurisdiction is 
Russia.
The Netherlands could not physically invade Russia to disconnect its servers or routers, but it could easily require 
the invalidation of Russian internet resources since RIPE NCC falls under its jurisdiction.
This would, as has already been stated, shatter the illusion of the Internet being a cohesive whole -- some people 
would be unable to access Russian internet sites, while other people would be unable to access European internet sites 
to which the formerly Russian resources were reallocated.

Possibly the main reason this hasn't happened yet is that politicians don't understand what internet resources are, or 
how they're allocated, or what could be achieved by forcibly changing allocations.


On 15/11/24 18:11, Tom Beecher wrote:
We're talking about what an RIR can do if ordered by a court with
jurisdiction. Remember: a court ordered AFRINIC to do some pretty
remarkable things in the not too distant past.

Sure, but my point is still the same. If at any point, we cannot trust that an RIR is the authoritative record holder 
of IP allocations , be it malfeasance/negligence, or a legal/government entity forcing them to take an action outside 
of established policy, then RPKI is severely crippled, if not useless.

However, I think it's an overblown concern. If a government entity has the courts in their pocket to force an RIR to do 
a thing, they have the power to do abou 10 other much easier things that would actually prevent full access to the 
thing they don't like. ( I'm taking your servers, I'm forcing you to unplug routers, etc)

Doesn't really make sense for them to force the RIR to do a think that would only disrupt access, not prevent it 
entirely.




On Thu, Nov 14, 2024 at 8:24 PM William Herrin <bill () herrin us<mailto:bill () herrin us>> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 14, 2024 at 2:44 PM Tom Beecher <beecher () beecher cc<mailto:beecher () beecher cc>> wrote:
> Yes, you're correct on that point.
>
> Fundamentally though, if an RIR actually did that, it's effectively the end of RPKI, and seismic damage to the 
> internet at large.

We're talking about what an RIR can do if ordered by a court with
jurisdiction. Remember: a court ordered AFRINIC to do some pretty
remarkable things in the not too distant past.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


--
William Herrin
bill () herrin us<mailto:bill () herrin us>
https://bill.herrin.us/