[NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS

[Gary Sparkes via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

Correction on that, the lithium polymers such as in modern cellphones are a fair bit different. NMC was used in 
non-LiPo cells for early mobile devices, however, was a thing in many variants. 

I was thinking more along the lines of things like early laptops that switched off nicad/nimh while looking at devices 
on my desk 

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Sparkes via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org> 
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 3:14 PM
To: Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa>; Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard () huawei com>; North American Network Operators 
Group <nanog () lists nanog org>
Cc: Gary Sparkes <gary () kisaracorporation com>
Subject: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS

I would say that NMC is older than LFP because it was invented far beforehand. It's what enabled the transition off of 
NiMH and NiCAD - invented sometime around the 1980s. I've got many examples from the late 90s and early 2000s, one of 
my favorite being the iPaq 3850 sitting on my desk (and of course, tons and tons of cellular phones). But that's 
obviously not stationary.... 

LiFePo4 is far newer - late 90s/early 2000s - and not commercially viable until later.

LFP makes more sense in a lot of applications because of voltages - it can be a "drop in" replacement for 12V systems 
due to the 3.2V nominal - and lifespan/cycle count. 

But NMC was commercialized far earlier in fixed storage, mostly apparent to me in the availability of house-scale 
lithium battery systems/solar, lithium UPS market at all scales, from 1U / switch rack units to full scall datacenter 
deployments. And Including according to some cursory research, grid-scale power systems as well - as LiFePo4 tech is 
still relatively new and developing. 

EV usage was more a selection because of density, but not a driver of that density development. Even EVs are moving in 
the LFP direction for safety reasons as that technology evolves. EVs using non-NMC existed before as well, due to 
technology limitations and evolution. 

Schneider's forecast in 2017 or 2018 for 40% of the datacenter market to be lithium based by around 2025. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> 
Sent: Wednesday, April 9, 2025 2:21 PM
To: Gary Sparkes <gary () kisaracorporation com>; Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard () huawei com>; North American 
Network Operators Group <nanog () lists nanog org>
Subject: Re: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS



On 4/9/25 14:12, Gary Sparkes wrote:

> Datacenter scale NMC UPSes have been a thing for a rather long time. As well as rack sized, and many others. Long 
> before LFP units were even thought about being commercialized.

NMC is older than LFP because EV's required NMC chemistries during a time when stationery storage was not a thing.

And yes, NMC makes sense for data centre applications because of the high energy density in such an environment.

But AFAIK, most data centres still rely on more on LA than Li-Ion.

Mark.
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list 
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog org/message/JDWUYN7OWDVNRVEWUGSSWNSIBTOXQV3W/
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list 
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog org/message/ZUZ5TSFQOOG7JRZU2E4AO64VZC6QAZY7/