[NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS

[Tom Beecher via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

Also I think James' comment about efficiency is important to consider.

Said you tossed a commercial UPS in there with 0% efficiency, and the draw
was 100W instead of 50W. Assuming the average US electricity pricing of
$0.16, that waste is costing around $70 a year..

Assuming this isn't an off-grid scenario where every W matters, is it
really worth jumping through all these hoops for that?



On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 5:12 PM Mike Hammett <nanog () ics-il net> wrote:

> "If you have requirements that there aren't good existing commercial
> solutions for, make it yourself. How do you think all this was done in the
> beginning? "
>
> *nods* That's how I started my WISP >20 years ago. I mean, I didn't build
> anything from scratch, but I was selecting mini PCI cards, adapters,
> antennas, etc.
>
> "in a fairly small project box"
>
> Ya know, that might really be the solution. No one (well, few) is opening
> their electric breakers and criticizing the electrician's work or their
> alarm panels or... Put the mess behind a box. Same mess, but inside a
> pretty box.
>
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Beecher" <beecher () beecher cc>
> To: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog () lists nanog org>
> Cc: "Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net>
> Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 4:05:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS
>
>
>
>
> Sure, but I can't just drop that into a car wash, a pizza joint, a used
> car lot, etc. These aren't places that have battery rooms or even equipment
> racks.
>
> We may look at it and think it's cool and geek out on how the different
> (still COTS) components were assembled, wired, etc. A layperson will just
> call that a mess and question if I know what I'm doing.
>
>
> You should be able to put the electronics (rectifier, charge controller,
> RPi/NUC for mgmt ) in a fairly small project box, along with an
> appropriately sized battery, and have a nice, clean looking solution.
>
>
> If you have requirements that there aren't good existing commercial
> solutions for, make it yourself. How do you think all this was done in the
> beginning?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 3:41 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG <
> nanog () lists nanog org > wrote:
>
>
> Sure, but I can't just drop that into a car wash, a pizza joint, a used
> car lot, etc. These aren't places that have battery rooms or even equipment
> racks.
>
> We may look at it and think it's cool and geek out on how the different
> (still COTS) components were assembled, wired, etc. A layperson will just
> call that a mess and question if I know what I'm doing.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> Midwest-IX
> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Svec via NANOG" < nanog () lists nanog org >
> To: "North American Network Operators Group" < nanog () lists nanog org >
> Cc: "Brandon Svec" < bsvec () teamonesolutions com >
> Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 2:18:54 PM
> Subject: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS
>
> You can buy a rectifier and batteries so it doesn't have to be a science
> project. Back in the day, all our large PBX installations had batteries
> and a rectifier. Sometimes isolated battery rooms adjacent to the switch
> room. There must be smaller, less expensive rectifiers. The catch is all
> the gear needs to support the DC power source. LaMarche has been around
> and was a common brand. I guess those portable, solar power banks are
> basically rectifiers too as long as they have some DC outputs to use.
> *Brandon Svec*
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 11:55 AM Mike Hammett via NANOG <
> nanog () lists nanog org > wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to find something that keeps my customer's network gear
> online
> > for a meaningful amount of time. The challenge is that an ONT, firewall,
> > switch, AP, and some IP phones doesn't add up to be very much load. Most
> > normal UPSes get terribly inefficient at lower load ratings. Add up all
> of
> > the network devices a customer may have and we rarely break 50 watts of
> > load. Normal, small UPSes are lucky to break 50% efficiency at those
> loads
> > whereas they may be 95% efficient at say 100 or 200 watts. Get a bigger
> > unit with a bigger battery and now you're even less efficient. Get a big
> > enough unit to have extendable batteries and now you're spending
> thousands
> > of dollars for such a small request.
> >
> > I've gone asking, but haven't really gotten anywhere. The best technical
> > solution was from some electronics parts nerds that was basically to
> build
> > my own small rectifier and battery system. Great. I can achieve high
> > efficiencies with small loads, letting me have say 4 or 8 hours of
> battery.
> > However, I've got a science project, not something I can deploy at a
> > customer.
> >
> > I'm hoping one of you has the magic bullet in what product a service
> > provider should use in this scenario.
> >
> > Oh, and of course, being able to centrally manage them from my own iron
> > would be great too. :-)
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> > Midwest-IX
> > http://www.midwest-ix.com
> >
> >
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