[NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS

[Mike Hammett via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

Very true. I could be letting the nerd in me get in the way of just getting the job done.



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Beecher" <beecher () beecher cc>
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog () ics-il net>
Cc: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog () lists nanog org>
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 5:16:54 PM
Subject: Re: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS


Also I think James' comment about efficiency is important to consider. 


Said you tossed a commercial UPS in there with 0% efficiency, and the draw was 100W instead of 50W. Assuming the 
average US electricity pricing of $0.16, that waste is costing around $70 a year.. 


Assuming this isn't an off-grid scenario where every W matters, is it really worth jumping through all these hoops for 
that? 






On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 5:12 PM Mike Hammett < nanog () ics-il net > wrote: 


"If you have requirements that there aren't good existing commercial solutions for, make it yourself. How do you think 
all this was done in the beginning? " 

*nods* That's how I started my WISP >20 years ago. I mean, I didn't build anything from scratch, but I was selecting 
mini PCI cards, adapters, antennas, etc. 

"in a fairly small project box" 

Ya know, that might really be the solution. No one (well, few) is opening their electric breakers and criticizing the 
electrician's work or their alarm panels or... Put the mess behind a box. Same mess, but inside a pretty box. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Beecher" < beecher () beecher cc > 
To: "North American Network Operators Group" < nanog () lists nanog org > 
Cc: "Mike Hammett" < nanog () ics-il net > 
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 4:05:51 PM 
Subject: Re: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS 




Sure, but I can't just drop that into a car wash, a pizza joint, a used car lot, etc. These aren't places that have 
battery rooms or even equipment racks. 

We may look at it and think it's cool and geek out on how the different (still COTS) components were assembled, wired, 
etc. A layperson will just call that a mess and question if I know what I'm doing. 


You should be able to put the electronics (rectifier, charge controller, RPi/NUC for mgmt ) in a fairly small project 
box, along with an appropriately sized battery, and have a nice, clean looking solution. 


If you have requirements that there aren't good existing commercial solutions for, make it yourself. How do you think 
all this was done in the beginning? 










On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 3:41 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog () lists nanog org > wrote: 


Sure, but I can't just drop that into a car wash, a pizza joint, a used car lot, etc. These aren't places that have 
battery rooms or even equipment racks. 

We may look at it and think it's cool and geek out on how the different (still COTS) components were assembled, wired, 
etc. A layperson will just call that a mess and question if I know what I'm doing. 



----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 
http://www.ics-il.com 

Midwest-IX 
http://www.midwest-ix.com 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Svec via NANOG" < nanog () lists nanog org > 
To: "North American Network Operators Group" < nanog () lists nanog org > 
Cc: "Brandon Svec" < bsvec () teamonesolutions com > 
Sent: Sunday, April 6, 2025 2:18:54 PM 
Subject: [NANOG] Re: Small Capacity UPS 

You can buy a rectifier and batteries so it doesn't have to be a science 
project. Back in the day, all our large PBX installations had batteries 
and a rectifier. Sometimes isolated battery rooms adjacent to the switch 
room. There must be smaller, less expensive rectifiers. The catch is all 
the gear needs to support the DC power source. LaMarche has been around 
and was a common brand. I guess those portable, solar power banks are 
basically rectifiers too as long as they have some DC outputs to use. 
*Brandon Svec* 



On Sun, Apr 6, 2025 at 11:55 AM Mike Hammett via NANOG < 
nanog () lists nanog org > wrote: 

> I'm trying to find something that keeps my customer's network gear online 
> for a meaningful amount of time. The challenge is that an ONT, firewall, 
> switch, AP, and some IP phones doesn't add up to be very much load. Most 
> normal UPSes get terribly inefficient at lower load ratings. Add up all of 
> the network devices a customer may have and we rarely break 50 watts of 
> load. Normal, small UPSes are lucky to break 50% efficiency at those loads 
> whereas they may be 95% efficient at say 100 or 200 watts. Get a bigger 
> unit with a bigger battery and now you're even less efficient. Get a big 
> enough unit to have extendable batteries and now you're spending thousands 
> of dollars for such a small request. 
>
> I've gone asking, but haven't really gotten anywhere. The best technical 
> solution was from some electronics parts nerds that was basically to build 
> my own small rectifier and battery system. Great. I can achieve high 
> efficiencies with small loads, letting me have say 4 or 8 hours of battery. 
> However, I've got a science project, not something I can deploy at a 
> customer. 
>
> I'm hoping one of you has the magic bullet in what product a service 
> provider should use in this scenario. 
>
> Oh, and of course, being able to centrally manage them from my own iron 
> would be great too. :-) 
>
>
>
> ----- 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> http://www.ics-il.com 
>
> Midwest-IX 
> http://www.midwest-ix.com 
>
>
> _______________________________________________ 
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>
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