[NANOG] Re: The Network CLI -- Love it ? Hate it? Needed?

[Matthew Petach via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 1:56 PM Mark Prosser <mark () zealnetworks ca> wrote:

> On 2025-03-19 13:08, Matthew Petach wrote:
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > I think you're setting up a false dichotomy here.  :(
> >
> > <snipping really good stuff I agree with here>
> >
> > via 'CLI', and never through a 'GUI'--if that helps answer your somewhat
> > false dichotomy.  ^_^;
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Matt
>
>
> Matt, really great stuff here. I like your perspective, your insight,
> and your workflow.
>
> Therefore, I just don't understand how you feel I've asserted any of the
> positions you've blamed me for.


> I've purposely left the question open ended (I didn't say what defines a
> Network CLI, for example), to allow for folks to speak from the heart &
> share their stories. The true nature of my curiosity is the position of
> the community, in matters of taste.

Hi Mark,

You're right.  I went back and re-read your original question of "Love
it/Hate it",
and realized I brought my own baggage with me around "of course, it's yet
another
CLI versus GUI thread" to the table.  I apologize, I construed intent into
your
question that wasn't actually there.  In looking at the thread, I will
argue (feebly)
in my defense that I wasn't the only one falling prey to the "if he's
asking about
CLI, the counterpoint must be GUI" error.  ^_^;

I will also take this moment to second Brian's amazingly sage point that
thus
far, there doesn't seem to be a non-CLI way of managing devices that works
over serial-based communication lines to the physical console of a device;
so out of necessity, pretty much every network engineer I've run into is at
least
familiar enough with the device CLI to get it onto the network enough that
they
can switch to their favorite GUI/API/management tool.  We aren't yet at the
point
where we can take any random network device out of the box, press a magic
"configure yourself from scratch from my source of truth" button, and have
it
connect itself into the network management system.  Somewhere along the
line, there's always a human gluing enough pieces together to allow a
higher-level
management system to talk to a new network device and bring it into the
fold.

(yes, in very controlled circumstances, ZTP can help make that almost a
reality; but in those cases, the human is doing all the leg work ahead of
time
to prepare the conditions to be just right in order for ZTP to work, and
when
you're building a network for the first time, in order to get the
environment right
for ZTP to work, you're generally working within the CLI, often through
console
ports, to get the network structure built to the point where ZTP can work
for later
boxes that come along.)

And so, for the third aspect of "Love it/Hate it/Needed?", I would say that
some
type of CLI-ish access to the device is always going to be necessary in
order to
configure it with initial network parameters for environments where there
is no
ZTP-type provisioning system in place (yet).

But back to you, Mark--you're absolutely right, I took your neutral
question, and
brought my own soapbox along to perch on, and in doing so, I attributed to
you
what was not originally present--and for that, I apologize.  :(


> Best regards,
> Mark Prosser

Thanks!

Matt
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