Re: Encryption is now illegal? (Re: U.S. Secret Service shuts down NYC cellular disruption network)

[Tom Beecher via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

> Upon actually reading the article, this looks overblown, typical of the
> current regime.
>
> Having a lot of SIM cards, a lot of phones, having phones in a
> rack-mount form factor, and plugging SIM cards into things that are not
> phones are not illegal.
>
> The fact that a cellphone network could be overloaded by a lot of phones
> doesn't make it illegal to have a lot of phones. Even if it /does/
> overload the cellphone network, AFAIK it's still not illegal unless that
> was your intention.


Yes, it's very overblown.

The reports say these items were found inside of a "35 mile radius" of the
UN. The total population inside that area is roughly 17 million people.

100k SIMs is a rounding error relative to the number of cellular network
devices in that area.

On Wed, Sep 24, 2025 at 5:13 AM nanog--- via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>
wrote:

> Upon actually reading the article, this looks overblown, typical of the
> current regime.
>
> Having a lot of SIM cards, a lot of phones, having phones in a
> rack-mount form factor, and plugging SIM cards into things that are not
> phones are not illegal.
>
> The fact that a cellphone network could be overloaded by a lot of phones
> doesn't make it illegal to have a lot of phones. Even if it /does/
> overload the cellphone network, AFAIK it's still not illegal unless that
> was your intention.
>
>
> Their other justification is even worse:
>
> "These devices could be used for... facilitating anonymous, encrypted
> communication between potential threat actors and criminal enterprises"
> - MEGA YIKES. So they're outlawing encryption now? Anything that can
> send communication can send encrypted communication. It's one thing if
> they discovered a criminal enterprise that was actually using this
> equipment as their communications hub, as I believe the law allows them
> to seize stuff used for a crime regardless of its other uses. But only
> in America (and Russia, Iran, North Korea) can they legally seize stuff
> just because it /could hypothetically/ be used for a crime, and then not
> give it back.
>
>
>
> On 23/09/2025 18:46, Mel Beckman via NANOG wrote:
> > The U.S. Secret Service announced today that it dismantled a network of
> electronic devices located throughout the New York tristate area that were
> used to conduct multiple telecommunications-related threats directed
> towards senior U.S. government officials, which represented an imminent
> threat to the agency’s protective operations.
> > The SS say they discovered more than 300 co-located SIM servers and
> 100,000 SIM cards across multiple sites, and while the photo they provide
> shows gear set up in what looks like an apartment, it could be that
> interlopers have infiltrated actual Internet colo facilities.
> > As a colo operator, I’ve turned away more than a few sketchy potential
> customers due to their flakey stories requesting rooftop or window antenna
> locations. Be on the lookout.
> >
> https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2025/09/us-secret-service-dismantles-imminent-telecommunications-threat-new-york#:~:text=NEW%20YORK%20–%20The%20U.S.%20Secret,SIM%20cards%20across%20multiple%20sites
> <https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2025/09/us-secret-service-dismantles-imminent-telecommunications-threat-new-york#:~:text=NEW%20YORK%20%E2%80%93%20The%20U.S.%20Secret,SIM%20cards%20across%20multiple%20sites>
> .<
> https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2025/09/us-secret-service-dismantles-imminent-telecommunications-threat-new-york#:~:text=NEW%2520YORK%2520%E2%80%93%2520The%2520U.S.%2520Secret,SIM%2520cards%2520across%2520multiple%2520sites
> .>
> >   -mel beckman
> > _______________________________________________
> > NANOG mailing list
> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog org/message/DXT5MYKRC3UPR22Z4QZVWE7BCJFYR6LB/
> _______________________________________________
> NANOG mailing list
>
> https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog org/message/5YDVUIHKINT37IYGHDIERE3ITNMW6B75/
_______________________________________________
NANOG mailing list 
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog () lists nanog org/message/ZQBBJXISLWFIOSGYCSQ4DSJEK6S2XAFN/