Re: IPv8 / BGP8 / CF

[Jamie Thain via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

Gary,

No it isn't. There are the Hyper Scalars and the Cell companies, and then --
what who of whats left are ever turning off IPv4. 

As I've said many times, and people don't believe it. IPv8 is about fixing IPv4
issues, and what are also IPv6 issues, but no one in corporate is removing IPv4,
so gotta fix it. 

:) 

What is the sunset date of IPv4. Never. 

Jamie 

On Sat, May 2, 2026 at 12:14 AM Gary Sparkes <gary () kisaracorporation com> wrote:


> That's from your perspective.
>
> F100 adoption is higher than you think.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jamie Thain via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org [nanog () lists nanog org]>
> Sent: Friday, May 1, 2026 11:11 PM
> To: North American Network Operators Group <nanog () lists nanog org
> [nanog () lists nanog org]>
> Cc: Jamie Thain <jamie () one bm [jamie () one bm]>
> Subject: Re: IPv8 / BGP8 / CF
>
> Lucien, 
>
> I see no need for this IPv8. IPv6 was carefully engineered over many years and
> while not perfect, works and is deployed. What problem are you trying to
> solve?
> I seem to have missed that.
>
> As per my draft. 
>
> 1. Management
> 2. Operation
> 3. IP Exhaustion. 
>
> IPv6 adoption is low in corporate networks. They've had 30 years to adopt it,
> they are not going to. The reason is simple. "No one ever got fired for
> sticking with IPv4."  Most IT people in the corporate world are "do no harm,"
> "there are no bonuses," and "don't break things" mindset; therefore, there is
> simply no impetus to replace what is in front of them. There is no address
> exhaustion, and
> IPv6 worsens the problems they have with IPv4. IPv6 makes things worse.
> Literally.  
>
> But there is a big problem with 10.x.x.x cross over, and hiding behind nats,
> and hierarchical need for the cloud. When IPx was invented the cloud was was
> the picture on Windows 95. 
>
> But the real killer is two things. IPv6 isn't a low cost upgrade, and the
> enterprise is always going to need IPv4. 
>
> So for the enterprise at least, build something built for the cloud. 
>
> 1. Its easy -- every one has an ASN number. 2. Its backwards compatible. It is
> not IPvX with 64 bits it is [AREA CODE -- RN] + IPv4. 3. There is no new
> infrastructure to build. It has several components
>         A Zone Server which is a combination of DHCP / DNS / NTP / (A web
> server Oauth and JWT replacing Radius) and NetLog Errors and PErformance
> only)  A slightly improved PF Sense.
>         These parts fully exist
>         DNS / Anycast and VRFs. 
>
> 4. It will be a firmware upgrade. 
>
> 5. The internal Zone 127.x.x.x allows for 16 million zones per what ever --
> with
> 4 Billion addresses each, and then you need to NAT again. It fixes almost
> every super-scalar behind the nat, collision problem. 
>
> Operations ... 
>
>    IP exahustion. Each ASN gets 3 Billion addresses. 
>
>    Bad Routes. There are no bad IPv8 routes. Routing is achived by sending
> packets to the R.R.R.R or short form ASN. area code, and checked at ingress,
> and if the route isn't inside the ASN it sends back rate limited ICMP "no
> route available" 
>
> So IPv8 is IPv4 V2 
>
> What do you think now? 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 1:45 PM Lucien Hoydic via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org
> [nanog () lists nanog org]>
> wrote:
>
>
> > I see no need for this IPv8. IPv6 was carefully engineered over many
> > years and while not perfect, works and is deployed. What problem are
> > you trying to solve? I seem to have missed that.
> >
> > No one is going to adopt IPv8. This is an academic discussion at best.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, April 30th, 2026 at 10:51 AM, Joe Klein via NANOG
> > <nanog () lists nanog org [nanog () lists nanog org] [nanog () lists nanog org
> [nanog () lists nanog org]]> wrote:
> > > This is very funny!
> > >
> > > - In 2004, very talented Chinese developers worked to implement
> > > IPv9. At present there are exclusive patents, but have yet to seen any
> code.
> > > - Over 20 cumulative years, there are about 0.5–2 trillion IPv6
> > > address instances, with the high side is driven by mobile devices,
> > > Wi-Fi roaming, privacy-address rotation, VMs, containers, VPNs, and
> > > tunnels. In short, this covers the ocean floor, caves, areas near
> > > Earth, and deep space. Will you and your team pay for the IPv4/IPv6
> > > change? When will you submit the patent applications (Similary to
> Microsoft patent for SEND/CGA)?
> > > Have fun.
> > >
> > > OO.
> > >
> > > Joe Klein
> > >
> > > "inveniet viam, aut faciet" --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II,
> > > Scene 1) "*I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has
> been."
> > > -- *Wayne
> > > Gretzky
> > > "I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2026, 10:51 AM Tom Beecher via NANOG
> > > <nanog () lists nanog org [nanog () lists nanog org]
> > [nanog () lists nanog org [nanog () lists nanog org]]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Tough love is needed here, and the list is not providing it.
> > > > > You're not being polite, you're enabling.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Only works when the recipient is actually open to receiving
> > > > feedback and collaborating.
> > > >
> > > > Reading Mr. Thain's replies here and on int-area answers that
> > > > question quite rapidly.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2026 at 2:35 AM Saku Ytti via NANOG
> > > > <nanog () lists nanog org [nanog () lists nanog org]
> > [nanog () lists nanog org [nanog () lists nanog org]]
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Tough love is needed here, and the list is not providing it.
> > > > > You're not being polite, you're enabling.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stop supporting this LLM psychosis.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >    ++ytti
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