Re: Digital Element, Neustar (Transunion) & ipinsight.io

[Joe Greco via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

On Sat, Aug 23, 2025 at 07:14:56PM +0000, David Conrad via NANOG wrote:
> Joe,
>
> On Aug 23, 2025, at 11:22???AM, Joe Greco via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org> wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 23, 2025 at 02:08:12PM -0400, Josh Luthman via NANOG wrote:
> > > Why is content different based on source IP?
> > Who cares?  It's not relevant to NANOG.  If someone wants to send one
> > HTTP response body to geographic addresses in the nothern hemisphere and
> > a different HTTP response body, that's fine.  
>
> The problem is the assumed binding of <IP address, geographic address> in the ???northern hemisphere??? or wherever. 
> This has never been guaranteed, has always been questionable, and, historically, was actively discouraged, at least 
> by the RIRs (???the Internet does not use geopolitical boundaries for address allocation???, handwaving away the RIR 
> geographical monopolies). The problem, as I think you pointed out earlier, is that various parties, for good or ill, 
> need there to be an <IP,geo> binding, even if it doesn???t really exist, so using what information they have, they 
> make it up as they go along.  Sometimes (usually) it works. Sometimes, it doesn???t. The crux is that, when it 
> doesn???t, the mechanisms to fix the binding, such as they are, sucks and the people who are impacted (i.e., end 
> users) are typically, the least capable of figuring out what the problem is, so they complain to the ISPs, hence the 
> relevance to NANOG.

They *want* a binding.  As those who have designed and implemented the 
Internet, we as a technical community haven't provided this.  Someone's
reasoning for wanting something that doesn't exist and isn't likely to
exist in a meaningfully accurate way still boils down to the fact that
content can be different based on source IP.  Or day of the week, phase
of the moon, or how coffee-deprived the author was.  NANOG isn't here
to debate the merits of content differentiation based on source IP.  If
we were to discuss this, it is probably fair to step back to your hand-
waving and point out that NANOG is pretty much "North American" and
ARIN is "American", so for meta-level geomapping it may not be a huge
problem.  Maybe.

However, legally, we've been seeing states and countries implement laws
such as California's Age-Appropriate Design Code Act (AB2273), Utah's
Social Media Regulation Act, etc.  If you want to have a nice NANOG-
relevant discussion of how to provide the technical underpinnings to
correctly estimate what state a given end-user endpoint is in, that's
definitely fascinating.

The issue of being able to correct an errant binding is definitely of
operational relevance.  I was strictly picking on the quoted idea of
content being different based on source IP, which is a giant whocares.

... JG
-- 
Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way
through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov
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