Re: Digital Element, Neustar (Transunion) & ipinsight.io

[Josh Luthman via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>]

Keep in mind the companies don't want to go through the hassle, it's the
copyright legislation that's the foundation of all this mess.

On Sat, Aug 23, 2025, 12:57 PM Joe Greco via NANOG <nanog () lists nanog org>
wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 23, 2025 at 09:31:56AM -0700, jay--- via NANOG wrote:
> > On 8/23/25 08:40, nanog--- via NANOG wrote:
> > > It's a basic principle of a free market that you cannot force someone
> to
> > > provide service. If Netflix wants to ban certain IP ranges at random,
> > > they're allowed to do that and the only recourse is whining.
> >
> > Customers in those random IP ranges who are paying for the service would
> > beg to differ. They're paying for a service which Netflix intentionally
> > is refusing to provide, based on erroneous data from a third party hired
> > by Netflix.
>
> That starts to sound vaguely like a tortious interference claim, but seeing
> as how Netflix hired the third party, I think it pretty much winds up as a
> "my streaming provider sucks" issue.  It's not shocking that VPN providers
> are capitalizing on this sort of thing, that web browsers are now coming
> with VPN services integrated, and that customers have no idea what sort of
> reasoning to use a VPN service is actually rational and justifiable.
>
> > Part of the problem is that the term "IP address" was chosen instead of
> > "IP number" or "IP identifier". It leads to the false assumption that an
> > "address" relates to a physical location.
>
> Or that an IP address uniquely identifies some particular individual?  I
> would hope that this sort of nonsense has been put to bed with the advent
> of CGNAT and all that.  Your average everyday man on the street is not
> going to understand (or care about) the finer points.  Heck, I've run
> into network folks who don't understand how I can have servers with
> adjacent addresses on opposite ends of the continent.  If we're going to
> talk about geolocation of IP's, perhaps we should start out with the
> basic understanding that accurately identifying endpoint locations is
> actually a really difficult thing to do from outside the network.  As
> network designers, we've failed to come up with a reasonable way to
> reliably do this, which leads to an issue when Netflix acquires regional
> streaming rights to content and then has to make best effort attempts to
> enforce those regional boundaries.
>
> We might have had a shot at this with 1876, though that could still
> easily be screwed up by NAT, since you can't really guarantee locality
> of the endpoints behind a NAT.  Plus setting up LOC records for all yer
> IP's is laughably unlikely to happen, raises new privacy concerns, etc.
>
> ... JG
> --
> Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
> "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its
> way
> through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
> democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your
> knowledge.'"-Asimov
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